Is Air New Zealand Holding Its Own On LAX-LHR? ? Civil Aviation ...
BA and Virgin call LHR a hub... AA and UA call LAX a hub
Of the 5 airlines on LAX-LHR, it seems like Air New Zealand is the most vulnerable, now BA putting the A380 on the route cannot be good news for them
How is Air New Zealand doing on LAX-LHR load wise?? or are they on the route just for the tech-stop?
I've always heard of NZ having decent loads but can't confirm this.
They obviously need to pick customers up for the LAX-LHR leg but I imagine fill quite a few of these seats with passengers continuing from AKL.
LAX is a *A hub, would be interesting to see how much Traffic they get from UA.
Dropping AKL-HKG-LHR will help bolster loads through LAX, and the move from 744s to 77Ws has reduced capacity somewhat. I doubt they're having too many issues.
Quoting g500 (Thread starter): How is Air New Zealand doing on LAX-LHR load wise?? or are they on the route just for the tech-stop?
I know that up-the-front LAX-LHR-LAX is hugely popular with the second tier Hollywood crowd. It's great value for money for those who earn good money, but are neither very famous nor very rich.
The studios use it too (and Virgin Atlantic) for actors and crew who negotiate up-the-front treatment, but aren't "big enough" to get first class in their contract.
mariner
[Edited 2013-03-05 16:12:48]
Quoting g500 (Thread starter): How is Air New Zealand doing on LAX-LHR load wise?? or are they on the route just for the tech-stop?
Don't forget that NZ has about 47-years of "working" the travel industry in California. No doubt they have built up some very good relationships.
It seems to me that it is doing fine.
Fare levels per kilometer are double those on the slightly longer Auckland-Shanghai flight in Economy and Premium Economy and triple in Business Premier.
Meanwhile loads are good in all three classes. I fly often on the flight, and my observations are:
1) There is rarely an empty seat in Business Premier
2) There is rarely an award seat available in Business Premier.
3) There is rarely any ability for top-tier frequent flyers to upgrade from Premium Economy to Business Premier with frequent flyer points - my wife and daughter have already been knocked back for January 2014.
The problem with the OP's hypothesis is that you have to understand the comparatively high yields on this sector compared with any of Air New Zealand's Asian routes. And that there is a full station at LHR, so the LHR-LAX sector does not have the economics of a one-stop flight, but rather each of the two sectors is effectively from an outstation to a hub.
Quoting qf002 (Reply 2): Dropping AKL-HKG-LHR will help bolster loads through LAX, and the move from 744s to 77Ws has reduced capacity somewhat. I doubt they're having too many issues.
It bolsters loads, but it massacres yields.
Fare levels have traditionally been calculated by the following formula in each class:
Auckland-Los Angeles = $ x
London-Los Angeles = $ x
Auckland-London (via LAX or HKG) = $1.2 x
The whole point of opening AKL-HKG-LHR was to remove through passengers AKL-LHR from the flight transiting LAX so that the two sectors AKL-LAX and LAX-LHR could be sold separately.
Unfortunately, I'm typical of many passengers who choose to take a stopover in North America so I messed up those plans.
Is Star partner UA able to code share on this flight?
Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 6): Is Star partner UA able to code share on this flight?
They don't appear to . Rather NZ has a code share on the UA evening flight
Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 6): Is Star partner UA able to code share on this flight?
Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 7): They don't appear to . Rather NZ has a code share on the UA evening flight
In fact, Air NZ codeshares with Virgin Atlantic on the San Francisco to London route, but extending that to LAX-LHR and exiting own-metal operations has been highly unattractive because of the Kamikaze long-haul yields that Air NZ gets throughout the rest of its long-haul network except for services to and through North America.
Air NZ conducted a long-haul review in 2012, but then buried the findings.
It's a matter of public record that their recently-departed CEO had had a catastrophic business career in London himself at ITV Digital and the rumours I've heard from multiple Air NZ employees are that he had a strong aversion to UK services and had commissioned the review in the expectation that it would recommend exiting 1-stop operations completely, with codeshares to service London, and instead would refocus long-haul operations on China and Japan.
But the statistics apparently completely contradicted such a model, with yields to (or more precisely from) both China and Japan well entrenched at basket-case levels consistent with the leisure nature of the routes, and with the services to LAX, SFO, HNL and YVR from Auckland and to LAX from LHR being the five highest yielding sectors on the network. Beijing was quietly exited as a second Chinese destination and HKG-LHR was closed.
It's all about the network. From most European nations, flights to China and Japan are heavily dependent upon business traffic, but all of Air New Zealand's Asian routes are almost entirely Economy class inbound traffic. The inbound traffic is package tourists on deeply discounted fares and the outbound traffic to China is almost entirely VFR of Chinese students going to visit their family and friends. It's extraordinary watching the ethnic mix when flights depart AKL for PVG: there are virtually no Pakeha (white NZ), Maori or Pacific islander passengers at all.
Going back several years, HKG-LHR was narrowly preferred to SFO-LHR as an extension of an existing flight from Auckland. I think that both were wrong, and that the second daily AKL-LAX service should have been extended 3 times weekly to Manchester, with a Virgin Atlantic codeshare.
[Edited 2013-03-05 18:14:27]
Quoting koruman (Reply 8): I think that both were wrong, and that the second daily AKL-LAX service should have been extended 3 times weekly to Manchester, with a Virgin Atlantic codeshare.
I too have been puzzled why no carrier is not running a LAX-MAN service. While what EK are achieving out of MAN/BHX to DXB is sort of like comparing apples and oranges, to me it indicates that there has to be substancial potential from the Midlands to LAX. I have a relie who flies BHX-DBX- SYD- AKL at least once a year on a highyield fare. She could be persuaded to fly MAN-LAX-AKL but she will not travel to LHR to commence her travel.
Perhaps this is one of the planned expansion routes.
Quoting koruman (Reply 8): Air NZ conducted a long-haul review in 2012, but then buried the findings.
They'd be fools to release an internal review which could be of value to the competition.
Quoting koruman (Reply 8): It's a matter of public record that their recently-departed CEO had had a catastrophic business career in London himself at ITV Digital and the rumours I've heard from multiple Air NZ employees are that he had a strong aversion to UK services and had commissioned the review in the expectation that it would recommend exiting 1-stop operations completely, with codeshares to service London, and instead would refocus long-haul operations on China and Japan.
He left the airline in good shape financially, consistently profitable even through the GFC, and as the recently reported increased profit - for the last months of his tenure - shows.
mariner
NZ has been flying the route longer than any carrier other than BA. They celebrated 30 years on the LAX LHR route last year. There is a lot of O/D on the route which helps fill seats not carrying through traffic from AKL. LHR is a big market. VS has basically no connecting traffic yet still survives long haul only, so NZ carries more connecting traffic from AKL And their pacific islands than VS.
Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 9): I too have been puzzled why no carrier is not running a LAX-MAN service
Manchester of course serves a population of around 10 million between Manchester / Liverpool / Leeds / Sheffield and the northern end of the East and West Midlands.
It's a fact of life that British corporate life is dominated by a London / Home Counties elite, who make rather lazy assumptions about the viability of long-haul services from Manchester, with the result that Emirates, Etihad, American Airlines and United have cornered perfectly viable markets which BA or Virgin Atlantic could have had. Ultimately BMI moved their A330s from Manchester to Heathrow with a predictably bad outcome.
MAN-LAX would obviously work at school holiday times at higher frequency than the rest of the year, but should be good for 4x weekly 788 / 763 services in holiday periods and 2 x weekly the rest of the year. As I've written before, a creative marketing department could bulk-sell Business Class seats to professional footballers in the north of England, who would be delighted to pack off their wives to a house in LA for weeks on end to allow them to misbehave with their team-mates.
Manchester United, Manchester City and Liverpool in particular find that their Latin American superstars tire of the damp north, as do Wigan, Everton, Bolton and Blackburn's less exalted Latin Americans. And many better foreign players head for Chelsea, Spurs or Arsenal simply because their spouses won't relocate to the north of England. An airline with vision could package flights and rental of a luxury home at Malibu or in Beverly Hills to ensure that Business Class sales are optimised - and of course Air NZ's 77E has only 26 Business Class seats to sell.
So there is lots of scope to sell even premium seats on a MAN-LAX sector - for Air NZ.
Virgin Atlantic would be largely restricted to O D, which is insufficient for this route. But Air NZ would combine:
1) NW England to California O D
2) NW England to Hawaii
3) NW England to New Zealand 1-stop.
4) NW England to Australia with the option of Pacific island stopovers (RAR, PPT, NAN)
This is all very encouraging, i'm definitely a fan of this route for Air New Zealand... I'm pulling for them
Had one of my best ever transatlantic flights with ANZ at the end of last year on LAX-LHR, hope it's here to stay.
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